Are You a Mary or a Martha? - Linda Lacour Hobar

Read to the bottom for FREE access to Linda's Workshop, "Mary and Martha Decide to Homeschool".

Yvette recently had the privilege of sitting down with Linda Lacour Hobar, author of The Mystery of History, for an interview for The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. In this discussion they explore how you can determine if you are a “Mary” or a “Martha” personality type, and how that will affect your homeschooling, parenting, and marriage. 

Through homeschooling her children, and service as a missionary, Linda discovered a genuine love for world history where famous and not-so-famous people have shaped time itself by the mighty hand of God.

Watch the video of this full interview for free on the Schoolhouse Rocked Backstage Pass website.

In the year 2000, Linda sensed a clear call to write The Mystery of History series for her children, grandchildren, and generations to come. Since then, this “Chronological, Christian, Complete” program has become a hit with readers of all ages. While fact-filled and thought provoking, Linda’s writing style is warm and personable. The Mystery of History has been awarded “Best Homeschool History Resource” in 2012; Cathy Duffy’s “100 Top Picks”; Mary Pride’s “Practical Homeschooling Reader Award”; and The Old Schoolhouse “Excellence Award.”

Backstage Pass members get access to an exclusive, 25-minute bonus video, in which Linda Lacour Hobar gives "10 Tips for Homeschooling as a 'Mary'". Not a Backstage Pass Member yet? Save 10% on any paid membership when you use the coupon code "PODCAST10". Backstage Pass memberships go directly to support production on Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution.

More from Linda Lacour Hobar:

Get your copy of The Mystery of History

Check out The Mystery of History Video Lecture Series online!

Get Linda's Mary and Martha workshop for FREE! Use the coupon code ruMaryorMartha to download of Linda's "Mary and Martha Decide to Homeschool" workshop today. (Coupon expires 12/30/2019)

Let’s pretend that Mary and Martha decide to homeschool. Following their character, Martha would probably have all her plans in place (and be frustrated), and Mary would probably be at the feet of Jesus (and way behind schedule.) We all have a little of Mary and Martha is us, but this workshop is designed to encourage Marys – who love the Lord and their children, but need help and structure to successfully homeschool. The presenter of this workshop is a self-proclaimed Mary (Linda Lacour Hobar, author of The Mystery of History) who managed to homeschool for 17 years, and still likes to talk about it. Download your free workshop here, when you use the coupon code ruMaryorMartha.

 

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Transcript (automatically generated - spelling and grammar errors are guaranteed!)

Yvette Hampton:           Hey everyone, this is Yvette Hampton and I am so glad to have you back with me for the podcast and I have an amazing guest on today who I actually have had on the podcast once before. So you are a return guest, which is really fun. Linda Lacour Hobar is the author of The Mystery of History. I'm sure many of you use it, but If you don't, you definitely want to check it out. Our family uses it. We use the audio version and we have the book version as well, which we absolutely love.

                        As a matter of fact, I remember when we first started homeschooling and we were looking for a history curriculum that was taught from a Biblical perspective. And that was really important to us. And we've talked a lot about this on the podcast that we wanted something that was going to direct our girls’ hearts towards Scripture. And so many, many people said, well you need to get The Mystery of History. And I was like, it has a really cool name, so it must be great. And now I am sitting in the dining room of Linda and it is so much fun to get to sit here. We for those of you who have been tracking with us over the past year, my actually past couple of years, you know that we travel a lot and we've been traveling for filming the movie. And so this summer we have traveled a lot.

                        We have been on the road the entire summer and we were coming through Memphis and you had mentioned to me awhile back that you lived in the Memphis, Tennessee area. And so I called you up and I said, Hey, can we come and see you? And so here we are sleeping in hers. I'm an empty nester and have three guest rooms. I'm like, absolutely. You come on, you are. And, and it's been fun. Talk about that a little bit about your family. Cause you were a homeschool mom for many years. Actually, through your whole, your children's childhood, right? So you've got three kids. Tell us about your kids really quickly. Yes. So we homeschooled for 17 years and my children are very much grown up now. They're 34 30 and 26 which means that I was homeschooling back in the late eighties and nineties right before there was.com can you even imagine there was no internet, there was no cell phones.

Linda:               So, I'm a true veteran. Yeah. I wish sometimes that we were back in those days because it seems like things would have been simpler in a way where they probably yes and no. There was fewer opportunities which actually left us home more and at home we got things done. So there is that beauty because homeschool does work best at home. Right. I would say one of today's homeschool moms challenges is that there is so much opportunity that you have to kind of be careful because you could wind up, you're away from the house and then you're not homeschooling your everywhere else but home. So it's right. Sometimes there's simpler days really. There's some legitimate to that. Yes, yes. And we always are having to find a balance between having our kids socialized, of course, because that was always the big thing for so many years is you know, homeschool kids are cooped up in their houses all day, every day of the week and they need to get out and explore the world and socialize with people.

Yvette:             And so, it was, I think the tides have shifted, but somehow, they've shifted almost to the extreme, right? Being away from the home so much. So we do have to find an important balance. And you've been in the homeschool community for a really long time because, I don't know, when did you first write The Mystery of History?

Linda:               Volume one: 2000. I was having a midlife crisis of sorts. I was turning 40. It was the year 2000 and now y'all all know how old I am. And I was praying for about a year. The Lord was stirring it in my heart, but it was in the year 2000 that I started writing.

Yvette:             Wow. God has used you in an amazing way to write this curriculum that still, you know, 19 years later God is still using it and you've gotten your revisions coming out.

                        You have a new revision that just came out for volume one and it's beautiful. You guys, I got to see it today and it's colorful and it's vibrant and it a, you've just done an amazing job in, it's not just the colorful pictures in it, but the content that is in it and we, our family lives The Mystery of History. It's, it's what we use for history. So take God be the glory. That's right. And as I'm hearing, you know, I've really gotten to hear your heart for families and homeschool moms and really what God has put on you to help moms like myself who really are not history buffs like you are. And so you've been able to help me to teach history, but you go to homeschool conventions and you get to speak to families all over the country, which is amazing. And I remember meeting you back in, I think it was March, we were at Teach Them Diligently in Nashville and we were talking about some of your workshops and you said you did one on Mary and Martha.

Linda:               “Mary and Martha Decide to Homeschool.”

Yvette:             That's right. And I was so intrigued by it and I was like, wow, I really want to know more about this. And so that's why we're doing a podcast with you today. Cause I want to talk more about this whole Mary and Martha idea cause I'm not sure yet where I fall in line with. Am I a Mary? Am I a Martha? So, so let's talk about this. Explain to me this workshop that you do on and Martha. Well, in order to do this subject, any justice, we really do need to go to the Scripture first and find there's four stories about married Martha in the new Testament. And for those who may not know, these sisters, there's Mary Martin, their brother Lazarus, and their stories really are fabulous. It still amazes me that we actually have this insight into these new Testament lives. I mean just how precious they are. So, without being too much of a Bible teacher, I am going to just follow the Scripture so that we start there because really, we're only deriving and gleaning things that we think we could know about them. I mean, I've not met these ladies, but based on some of their responses to Jesus, this is what picking up. So

Linda:               Then that all applies to homeschool moms and we're going to get there. So if I may, I'll start with Luke tin has the classic story that most people know. That's the one you might be familiar with. You hear pastors preach on it. And this is the story where basically Jesus comes to visit Mary and Martha and Lazarus in their home. And Martha is a bit perturbed with her sister because Martha feels like she's doing all the work in the kitchen. And she were literally fusses and kind of wags her finger and like, Jesus, will you not rebuke my sister who's just sitting around listening to you? And so that's the famous story. And the end of that story is that Jesus does not rebuke Mary. He's actually like, no, Martha, you're missing it. She's doing the better thing because Mary was sitting at the feet of Jesus sitting, wanting to eat clean wisdom from him and learn from him listening.

                        And of course, all my Martha friends will say, somebody had to put the food on the table, and I know that and we're going to get to that. And she has a servant's heart. Martha does. But Jesus does push back on that. He's like, you're missing it. You're missing the heart. You know, don't be so consumed. But another story in the new Testament that's much longer, but we can get a lot of the two gals out of it is the S the passages that come out of John 11. And so this is the story. So we've already had the story in John of them just serving Jesus. But this is another story now where Lazarus, their brother is actually dying. And so Mary and Martha, a call out to Jesus like, please come because our brother is so sick, he's dying. Well, interesting. The passage says in John 11:5five, “Now, Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.”

                        So right there to clear the air. He doesn't favor one sister over the air. He never does. He loves them all. And then it goes on to say, so when he heard that he was sick as in Jesus, when he heard Lazarus was sick, he stayed two more days in the place where he was. So Jesus purposefully delayed his visit to let something horrible happen. The man's just sick. Jesus doesn't go right away. And it's not because he doesn't care. It's because he has a plan. So I think it's very interesting that we see that Jesus just allowed something to happen. So Lazarus does die. And then what happens next is that we get a picture of Martha's response first to Jesus once he finally shows up and she's peeved. And then we have a picture of Mary when Jesus shows up. So let me glean a little out of this just with you.

                        It says now Martha, as soon as she heard Jesus was coming when and met him, but Mary was sitting in the house, so can't you just picture Martha? She kind of marches over there like Jesus and she says, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever you ask of God, God will give you. Now, what is critical in this is that Jesus has such a relationship with Martha. He must respect her, right? Because what he does to respond to her is give her a theology lesson, one that he won't give Mary, but they don't give to Martha. This is an incredibly faithful woman. I mean, I do love Martha. And he goes on to say to her, I am the resurrection and the life like boom. I mean he just lays it on her and you know, keep in mind this little new Testament family, they haven't yet known Jesus to die and be risen from the dead yet they don't know and they don't know that I don't even know what the hell are you referring to.

                        So that's like, okay, but Martha says, and we have the record of her faith and testimony. Martha says, yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Christ, the son of God who has come into the world. Whoa. I mean this is an amazing woman, right? And again, she has not yet seen Jesus die and come back to life. But she is like convinced. So she has great faith. But anyway, the story goes on and Martha sins word and says, Jesus is so many of you. But, but she tells her in secret. I don't know why Martha feels like she has to tell that to Mary in secret, except that maybe she's afraid Mary's going to cause a scene. This is just my guess is like I know when I go to a restaurant with my family and they're always like, mom, you know, don't call the scene if you don't like me to bring them birthday presents at restaurants because I want to call it a scene.

                        So, I just picked her. Mary is much more demonstrative or feelings or something. So Martha's like just in secret, like Jesus is summoning you, which again, Martha has to meet him on the road. But Jesus summons Mary. So he is tuned in her broken heart. The brother's dead, right. So what's interesting is, so then it says also Mary has a little support group. So she's there with her friends as it says, you know, the Jews are with her in the house or comforting her. So Larry has a support group. Martha doesn't, she's self-sufficient, right? But Mary has a little group of people in any way. It says Mary then went to Jesus and saw him and she fell down at his feet and said, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. The exact same words Martha said, but in a different posture, right?

                        And in a different manner. Martha's kind of busted and a Mary's broken and at his feet. And I think the picture, I get a Mary over and over that she up, very broken woman. We don't know her whole story, but I see a lot of brokenness on her. She's very distraught a lot. So she's more weeping. And then when Jesus sees her weeping, do you know what he did? Is it's the shortest verse in the Bible. You know the one come to Jesus. What? Jesus wept. Jesus isn't weeping because Lazarus is dead. He's weeping because he loves his people and he sees their pain. He's weeping at Mary's broken heart. He's not so prized, and he's not surprised. And of course, the next part of the story is that he does in fact raise Lazarus from the dead. We don't hear peep out of the sisters.

                        Again, I'm on that particular thing. But Lazarus is raised from the dead. What an incredible, just foreshadowing of what price is going to do. So any way to beat him. But here's something neat. There's another story of them. Okay, so I've given you, there's the classic stories. Then there's the raising of Lazarus, but there's one more. John 12 get this as a six days before the Passover came to Bethany where Lazarus was, who had been dead, who he raised from the dead and there they made him a supper, get this and Martha serve. It's like, and she had learned a thing. She's still serving because Martha is Martha, right? So Jesus get her, she's an toner and Mary's doing a better thing, but she's still serving because somebody still has to put the dinner on the table and it's Martha. Yeah, this woman is faithful, so I still love her, but this is what is happening.

                        In contrast then Mary took a pound of very costly oil of spikenard, anointed the feet of Jesus, wiped his feet with her hair and the houseless filled with the fragrance of the oil. How many of you guys lose, you know, use essential oils, right? Can't you just imagine the fragrance we're talking about a year's worth of wages is what this oil costs. This is an extravagant act of worship. Now picture this too. She's wiping his feet with her hair. Well, I know that that was a certain tenderness and all, but I also, there's a part of me thinking this was a spontaneous act of worship. Was she unprepared? Did she not like bring a cloth? Right? And like knowing in speech, she's like, I'll just use my hair like she is. So this is so just, she's probably really not thinking ahead because again, they could have used this money maybe differently, but we know in her spirit, she's anointed him as the savior.

                        He is, she wants to serve. And it's again a foreshadowing up because the, these oils, this is like burial, ceremonial preparation and all this. And I don't even know if she knows that, but she's just doing this. Now what's so neat is that of course the disciples bus, Oh, you know, this could have been used and given to the poor. Jesus says, let her alone. She has kept us for the day. My burial, they still don't even know he's going to die. Right. And so let her alone and then it goes on and there's this bonus in Mark that just, this is what gets to me, Mark, another gospel writer will say this is Jesus speaking. And he says, assuredly, I say to you, where ever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a Memorial to her, Oh wait a minute, the Bible over and over spotlights Jesus.

                        But in this one instance, Jesus is going back to what Mary had done again. I'm picturing a broken woman. She's not getting the dinner on the table. People are fussing at her. She's got a support group. She cries a lot. She's kind of a mess. She had broken this oil, puts it on his feet and everything and Jesus says that that act would be remembered where ever the gospel is preached. Well, that's a message for eternity and I just am kind of like still a little taken back that of all the little heroes of the faith, he could have pointed out, he points a little light at Mary just a minute. Like it's okay with him that she's on meth. Yes. Like he really is okay. K with that and loves her despite her. Like maybe he just loves it. She so needs him because this is what I'm picturing is and needy woman.

                        I'm thinking of homeschool moms all over the country right now. Right. That's the context of this talk is you got to know these sisters. Yes. Yes. So, okay, so the workshop that you do is titled Mary and Martha decided to homeschool. Right? Which, which I love this cause as you're talking about Mary, I'm thinking of we're, we're probably split down the middle between homeschool moms. You know, the mom said, I talked to you, many of them are married, many of them are Martha. And there are so many aspects and personality traits from each one of them. So can we talk a little bit more about that? Because I want to figure out like, yeah, who, who personalities, who am I? I want you to tell me today who I am. We have a crave coming to know me a little bit. So you might already have an idea.

                        I think I am and, and I'm a giveaway to probably by the way, I'm already speaking, but let's, let's hold that thought. Okay, let's go to the personalities. Just kind of dissect them. And I got a little professional help with this one because there was a man named Anthony who writes about these learning styles. And so based on some of his, I've applied his findings to married Marco. So he didn't do the Mary Martha part. That was just for me. But he would say, let me back up a minute. That people by personality typically are either concrete or they're abstract. So let's pause concrete meaning some people really thrive and bloom and grow on very tangible things. Black and white, right or wrong a B, I mean they're just concrete and so they manage things well. Then the abstract person is all over the place.

                        The abstract is really a gross in the intangibles. The non-measurables. So they're inspired by beauty, love, peace, things you can't touch and hold. But that means something. Okay. So you have two very different, so people typically are concrete or abstract, but on top of that there's a way that people process those things and they process some typically either sequentially, which is in order or randomly, which is absolutely no order. So let's go back to those definitions. The obviously the sequential person finds natural order logical. There's an a, there's a B, there's a C, there's a one, there's a two, there's a three. And in fact of violate that is rock in the universe. You know what I mean? This person is tight ship. Yup. The random person is actually so confined by that. The random person doesn't operate well because a random person, they're just, they're just all over the place and it's like they're going to go with what feels right next.

                        Not what's logical at all. So it's a collision of views and handling. So what I have in my, what I've derived with Mary and Martha from the new Testament is that I think that if you put a concrete sequential together, those are all the thinkers of this world. I think that's Martha. I just think that's her. And they would be very task oriented. And then if you were to put together the abstract as well as the random, well you got a hot mess and that's pretty much married. All right. Those are just what I derived from these sisters from what we can get. And you know, I haven't met them, but I can't wait to get to him and to meet him. But I think that that's what they are. And so again, Anthony Grigorik has defined those four and now some people, there's a few random people that crisscross on the seventh those.

                        But I'd say most people, if they're concrete, they're also sequential. And most people, if they're abstract, they're also reading them. So really talking left brain, right brain, you're talking about free spirits versus, right. The non, which we need both in the world. Oh, absolution. Yeah, in a nutshell, we'll just call them thinkers and feelers. That's an easier way to look at it. And everybody thinks everybody feels but to different degrees. So let's just generalize thinkers, feelers. So now that I've said all that, let's go back to Martha. Okay. As a thinker, that means she's very task oriented and Oh my goodness, I know this Martha. Well, this is my story of Martin. I know this. Martha will because my mother is a Martha extraordinary, my sisters and Martha, my first born is a Martha. My husband has marked the qualities in that. There's a lot of things that are very precise.

                        So, let me give it away now I am so not that, okay, I'm going to be a Mary, let me give to us now. I'm a Mary all the way through. So that means my entire life I have been surrounded by Martha's and in comparison, they're the efficient people. They're the logical people, they're the people that you want to get a job done, you give it to them kind of people. And you know, I can't measure up. I mean at least that's kind of how I feel. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, like I've been, you know, like, so that's been my problem. I've been like kind of surrounded by that. And some other examples of that is I'm like, let's go back to my mother again. She was a great mother and how she like took care of us because she liked to clean, she liked to cook and she's well organized in the pantry with Stockton.

                        But it meant that if it was time for dinner, it's time for dinner. It doesn't matter how pretty it is outside, if you want to ride bikes no sooner now kind of a person. And she wanted things done a certain way. So all of say I was very cared for, loved by what my mother did for us as her gift is, she is a servant through and through, never complaining. Right. Okay. So that's all like beautiful. But I'm not any of those things. So let me ask you a quick question that about her. Did she, you said she was a servant through and through. Did she have more of a servant, hospitable heart or did she do those things because it was the, the thing that needed to be done? Both. Both. Okay. Both. I would say both. Yeah. Because it was with joy.

                        She did those things. So she had met Mary and her two. Oh yeah. Because, sure. Yeah. Strongly loved us and all that, but it was going to express itself through Martha and Scott. You know what I'm saying? Okay. That's just the right thing to do. Okay. So let me now transition to the Mary yes. Definition and the Mary personality by what I've just described. I think Mary's on the opposite end of this spectrum. I think she's abstract and random. And so what that looks like is that she's very driven by feelings to a fault. They are the higher calling and C, Martha, the higher calling is getting the job done. She's a thinker for Mary. The higher calling is really paying attention to her heart. It just is. It's the higher calling. And so Mary can put feelings above a task. That doesn't mean she's a loser.

                        He's not lazy, but she can rank things differently. Sure. She's a free spirit and she's all over the place. She runs late. Forget a planner. I mean, I'm notoriously late. Truthfully, she's really not the most responsible woman. She's not the person you want to pile on too much responsibility cause it really just may not get done right. But it's really like okay with her, which is what Martha can never understand. Like mothers just doesn't understand that, you know? So in contrast how I said my mother very much love just by what she did for us. And that's just true. I really don't have a servant heart. I hate to admit it now. I love people. I'm a people person, but like I don't love people by what I do for them. I love people by the experience I'm going to have with them. Okay. It's just a little bit different because in my mind, I guess I'm like, well, you can get the ketchup.

                        I mean, I just don't write about my chair where my mother would because I don't know what that's like an act of love for her. And I'm like, but, but because I'm, there's so much abstract as in so much feeling, everything's in tangible, but my values are love, joy, beauty, peace. That means what I'm going to do is I'm going to pray with you. I'm going to invest time with you. I may counsel you, I write, I'm going to journal, I'm going to ride bikes at sunset. And let dinner get cold. I mean I'm going to be spontaneous. Yep. It goes on and on, whereas, you know, like spontaneity and my mom like those just whatever, which by the way, I haven't permission to completely give her as an example because she's so smart that ever. And we have done one of these sessions together and the little quiz I have coming is all based on my mom and she totally loved this.

                        So, I'm not picking on my mom because she knows absolutely how much I love her. And let me say those too. We've both grown a little as we've aged, I probably become more of a Mart than she's probably become more of a mirror in that sweet. I mean, you know, cause we all have, we all have some of this, but anyway I guess so being a Mary and eventually we'll get to homeschool with it, but it meant clearly I'm a softy mom who's going to struggle with boundaries. I'm going to struggle with, you know discipline. I'm going to struggle with rules because inside I don't like any of that. Right. routine and schedule actually just SAPs the life out of me. It stifles me. I want freedom. I want creativity. I want, yeah, I'm, I'm all that. And so, where Mark, that's going to get the job done.

                        So, can you just imagine them in homeschool, right? I mean, you've got two very different homes. So anyway, I think you need to go to your little sponsor thing. Yes. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. So let's bring it back to homeschooling. And how does, how does being a Mary or a Martha relate to us as homeschool moms? Okay. Now again, I know I'm generalizing a little bit here. Give me some grace on that, but I could give you just four little snapshots. I think of what this means. A Martha looks like as a homeschool mom. All right, so you're ready? So I would say number one, this is the gal with lesson plans. Premade. Okay. And advanced. She's the pantry. Field trips. She can handle them. She's the co-op leader. And she should be like, this is the woman again.

                        She's going to get it done. Yep. I would also say she might follow the classical model of education because we all know it's the hardest, takes a lot of preparation. I would say she again can run that homeschool co-op very well. And in my imagination, because I don't know, I'm not one, but I would imagine her homeschool is lined with filing cabinets and there's a place for everything. Yes. So we're at a timeline on her wall. Oh yeah. Yeah. It actually on the wall. Now in contrast, if we dropped Mary in to a homeschool world, and maybe this is just me, but she doesn't handle the lesson plans. She runs late for the field trips when you're as a field trip coordinator. And it was a mistake because it's like I had to make all the phone calls and didn't go very well.

                        I liked them because I liked the adventure and spontaneity, but I need somebody else to organize it. Right. I would also say she's more inclined to follow an unschooling or eclectic approach because for one, she buys everything. She's feelings oriented. Right. So she can't make a decision. Right. You can't just pick one. Right. And she's all over the place. Let's see. I would also say you really don't want her in charge of your homeschool co-op, but you want her there on the committee to welcome the new people. Yeah, she's going to pray and counsel and share and love on them. That will come very natural to her. But you know, running the meetings, I don't know. And then last I would say her classroom is lined with artwork that she intends to frame one day, but you know, it's never going to happen.

                        You know how hard it is to frame those little things, the momentum that you think you're going to frame. So I just have a little tip, Mary low. So if you're hanging up with one piece of scotch tape, you know what happens in time is those tops curl and then that little piece of artwork is curly. So just give up the idea that you're going to hang it in a frame because you're not, neither are you going to scrap bark, but hang it with two pieces of tape and don't last a lot longer. [inaudible] You're great. And then one day they all, yeah, to put the day that was, that was free

Yvette:             So, okay, so in regards to actually homeschooling and figuring out who we are, you have a quiz?

Linda:               Actually, why don't I give you the quiz. Okay. And let's see. I haven't heard these questions yet. I know I'm springing them on you. Just raw. I have to write this down. You do? Okay. So for your listeners, all of explain what I'm doing, I basically, I have 20 questions. Okay. So I'll try to go through them fast. Okay. 20 questions and really you either give yourself a minus one or a plus one depending on what I dropped down one through 20 [inaudible] cast right now. Yes. That might good. Helpful paper. Yeah, in Mary. Okay. Paper. You've got to go find paper and you're going to need to double space this. Just a quick one through 20 and if you're with a friend named Martha, she has a pen and paper for you. Now, you know, Mary actually didn't make it on time to the podcast even, you know she's not here.

                        She's getting the, yeah, she's watching it later. Okay. Listening later, one through 20 I'll, I'll run through these quick and you're going to go minus one or plus one and then we're going to add them up at the end. And then we will, I have a scale that'll show you like where you lean. Okay. And by the way, this one are plus one minus ones or plus one. So you either get negatives or positives. Okay? By the way, if you wind up with a zero, you're like the perfect person. You're right in between the [inaudible] enjoying math. Am I going to have to add these at the end? You will. I use my calculator if you need to, but you know. Okay, so number one, okay. If more often than not, your library books are overdue. Give your cell phone minus one. Because what that means is that you probably am married.

                        So, see Mary gets got minus ones. Okay? So that's it. Now. By the way, I'm notorious for being late at the library books. It doesn't matter how many times I write it down on the calendar, I just can't do it. And of course as homeschools, we take them by the basket, right? And so I always, I just, one's going to get lost under the couch. I just decided it was a handling fee and just paid them some. Okay. Number two, if you have ever menu planned for a month or have several meals in the freezer, give yourself a plus one because that's a Martha. So do I get it for myself? A zero self-esteem never happened. Yeah. If you have never menu plan for a month and you don't have meals in the freezer, if you don't, just put a zero. But if you have that, give yourself a plus.

                        No one, Nope, never done that. Okay. Number three, if your family assumes you'll run late or you relate to this workshop, cause I usually do this in a workshop, give yourself a minus one the family just knows you'll be like minus one always late. Okay? Number four. If your shirts or shoes are organized by color, give yourself a plus one. See, I'm describing my mom. Everything's color coded in her closet. There's no way that's happening in my closet. Okay. Number. Let's see. Number five, if you're a curriculum junkie, because it's so hard to sell the old stuff, you get a minus one. So your curriculum junkie, you can't part with it cause you know how hard it is to sell curriculum on the internet. Oh my gosh. You have to [inaudible] numbers. That's a minus one. You can't do it. I got ya. Yeah. Number six, if you're in extreme coupon or, or at least close to it, you get a plus one.

                        That's the thing with those coupons. I have time for that. I've decided coupons. I mean, why did they want to pay me for cutting out little pieces of paper? I just really don't understand that. I just go with, there's a tag and it's yellow, then it costs less and I buy three coupons. I throw them away. I can't do it. I like your logic. I can't do it. It's can I? Oh I know. Yeah. And I know some gals who beat me up for that. But you're good at it. They're gifted and they should do it, but like I'm not cause they're Martha's given it up. Right. Number seven if you're to do list is on the, on the back of your hand or on an envelope or on a receipt, you get a minus. Wow. Okay. Confession. Friends. I had to really work hard to give her this piece of paper.

                        She's at my house and I had a hard time finding it. Aren't you glad I didn't give you an envelope writing this on my arm? I'd have to, by the way, I don't know where many Martha's who write on the back of their hands, but this is a Mary thing and I sometimes wish Sharpie. I put an important note right there. Oh yeah. No, I don't. You know, I'm pretty certain I'm a Mary, but I do not write on my hands. Okay. I don't like my hands to be dirty. Oh, okay. Well that's, that's bothersome to me. That's funny. All right. Number nine, if you scribe [inaudible] as one, we're on eight. Oh, don't listen to my numbers cause I've moved some things around. Okay. Okay. Next. If you cry spontaneously to love songs on the radio or to hymns at church, give yourself a minus one.

Yvette:             Oh no, I don't. That's why you don't cry. I am not a crier. Oh my goodness.

Linda:               Okay. Number 10 if you buy in bulk, but you work out of labeled containers that are just the right size for your cabinets or cupboards, you get a plus one. Oh. So if you're that lady, you know, you go to Costco, you buy in bulk, and then you have a place for it at home and smaller individual, not me. Okay. But that's my mom numb. Next. If you often start school in your pajamas and you do family read-alouds from your bed, which is unmade, well you get a minus one. There's just nothing like Charlotte's Web in the sheets. Right, right from the sheets.

                        I love read-alouds in the bed yet unmade. And that was the, that was [inaudible] doesn't mind this one because I time everything. Got it. Next, if you organize small parties or meetings on an Excel spreadsheet, you get a plus one. I think that Martha and Excel go well together. Huh? Here's the next one. If you save the baby teeth of your children, give yourself a minus. What does a pregnancy test count? Because the [inaudible] I have saved my pregnancy. Is that disgusting? I shouldn't admit that on kids baby teeth. It's over time break apart, but I have them. I can tell you where they are in these little containers in my bedroom. Here's, here's my theory. I feel like, listen, those baby teeth are like metals of honor because you know how hard it was for them to get those towels. That's how you feel about the pregnancy test.

                        11 stinking years! It took me to get as and or pregnancy tests. Why you can't, I had many, many negative ones, so yeah, after that many years to get a positive one, you keep it still in a Ziploc. At least put it in a Ziploc. It's fine. She washed them off. But yeah, these babies, he's like, we should make jewelry or something. [inaudible] That baby in the middle of the night. We were cutting those tapes together, making back lists out of my pregnancy test, I promise. Okay. That would be gross. Oh wait, where were we? Is that the minus one? And you're getting one for having a pregnancy test or I'll have to change my desk. Okay. Okay. we just got a few more. If you had a shopping list for a homeschool convention before you went [inaudible], you get a plus one, or maybe you just know what you're going to, you know, next year.

Linda:               If you pray often for God's mercy because of mistakes that you've made, you get a minus one. Say again, I think, by the way, let me answer it. This little thing about Mary, you know, sometimes I think when pastors talk about Mary and Martha and they talk about Mary at the feet of Jesus, I think they make her out to be this very saintly, Holy woman. And I'm like, you know, Martha was the faithful one who's not going to break the rules and get into Mischief. But Mary, I don't think she was at Jesus's feet cause she was so wholly, my personal theory is I think she was a very broken woman with a lot of sin in her life who was at his feet out of pure worship and need, and so again, if you're the woman praying for God's mercy a lot, because you really, you know, you don't, you don't keep healthy boundaries easily.

                        You, you do make mistakes. Big ones. I think that's a Mary thing. Okay. Anyway, I just think that's a misunderstanding of her. It is speed. It's not good. She likes this flow. Right, right, right. It's more like, Oh yeah, she needs Jesus. She needs Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next, on a much lighter note, if you set up the coffee pot or tea before you go to bed at night, you get up plus one. When I go home to see my mother, this always happens. She'll be like, Hey honey, so do you want to set the coffee up tonight? I'm like, why would I do today what I can do tomorrow? She though would set her teapot up at night before she goes to bed. So then in the morning she just has turned it on, like just got a little cups go, we'll take it.

                        And I never, I don't do that. No I don't do that. My oldest daughter who I told you is a Martha really? And that's because she started making her own lesson plans in fifth grade. That's when I figured that out. Why we're making them. She started making her own. I'm like, Oh you need more structure. Yeah. So anyway, she told me to like a week ago, I kid you not. She's like, Oh by the way, cause he just got this new workout routine and she's like, I'm just making the coffee like at night, but not turning it on. But I have it already and I just bust it out loud. I'm like, you are a Martha, like as you're doing it at night before you go to bed, which a great idea, but I'm just not in my universe. It's not going to happen. Okay. Sorry I do today.

                        What you could put off till tomorrow. That's kind of, and I think this is, Oh no. Okay, hold on. Almost there. If you unpack the same day that you get home from a trip, I think you get a plus one because the end of a trip, no, I'm going to unpack my hair products. Right. My toothbrush and that was about it. The rest is going to sit for a couple of days. Just beat. I can't do that now. But Martha is in the, it is sorted. It is, yeah. My husband impacts the day he gets home. I mean it's put away if one lunch this week was a happy and granola bar that you found in the bottom of your purse, you'd get a minus one because he, again, Mary's, I'm thinking of time. Time is a tangible thing and she's into intangibles. That's why she runs late. She doesn't manage time well.

                        So, she forgot she was leaving to run an errand right near noon when she should be hungry or you know, it's not on her radar. Right. So lunch is the granola bar. Yeah, bottom of the purse. If you offer your house, gets a hot breakfast, you get a plus one. I think that's kind of a Mark the thing now friends, she spent the night with me last night and she got boiled eggs this morning. But I don't know if that counts. You didn't get like paying the whole [inaudible]. I think it counts. They were delicious. But I gave you like a buffet. Yes it was fantastic. But Martha could do more than that. It was pretty, it wasn't, you know what? And by the way, some people listen to me giving this and they just kind of assume like maybe I'm just a disaster like around my house and stuff because they know claiming to be like a Mary who's a little bit, all this storehouse is very [inaudible] and comfortable.

                        Well, I'll tell you why I figured that out. Mary is inspired by beauty to the point that she might keep it kind of tidy. Well, don't go look in my drawers event, right? Because there'll be real messy on the inside. But on the outside is kept kind of pretty because that does motivate me. I need that. So my space is, you know, kind of together. Yes. But that's different from, you know, they're different. So anyway. Okay. We're getting closer. Spontaneous field trips that count for school. You get a minus one, right. Can I go on field trip 10 on that one? You know, like, Hey look, there's a Caterpillar Digger next door. Yes. Dig it up, whatever. Let's count that. We travel full time almost. I mean right now full time, the other day we were driving through Texas and we came across Cadillac ranch, which I had never heard of before.

                        And it's this random place in the middle of the desert where this artist, he, he buried a bunch of Cadillacs in the ground. Like they're like standing halfway up like Stonehenge kind of. Yes. Kind of get a storm. I got a point. Yes. And then it gets better because people take spray paint cans out there and you can spray paint on the Cadillacs. They've been there for like 40 something years. I'm from Texas and I don't know about Cadillac. One part of Texas. Where is this? Oh, I don't know. Panhandle. Oh no, but I don't know. Okay. Texas is huge. It is huge. So it's, I could have missed it somewhere in Texas. That's a great, it's on route 66 I can tell you that much. I couldn't tell you the town. But it's fascinating. And so there, I mean it does. Are we doing here that tourist field trips, spontaneous, spontaneous field trips and so we drove by it and we both were like stop the car. We have to go to Cadillac ranch and start. It's an, and it was amazing and our girls had a great time cause they got to spray paint cars cause who gets to do that? And that's fun. That's neat. Anyway, continue on. I'm sorry, we've got one more. Can you tell you got two Mary's here. So I tried. Okay. And you said I had one more. Okay. You're carrying a planner right now. Give yourself plus one cause you're sitting right here at my kitchen table. But normally I'm often

Yvette:             Doing this at a convention and so if they have a planner on them, they get a point. So, okay, let's does a phone count as a planner? Well you've got a phone nearby. I always have my phone. You all near me and I always have my planner on my phone. I can't tell if your planner is on your phone then. Okay, so this is a plus one. You got a plus one plus one. Okay. Yes. Oh my. Okay. So now I need to yes, you add that up too quick and I'm going to give you a scale. We'll find out what you are, our listeners, I hope you'll be doing the same. And then based on your results, we have a couple of closing remarks. Okay.

                        So, I have negative four. Oh, okay. Oh, you said Oh you want to meet. Okay. So here's how it goes with the points. So if you are M minus 10 to a minus four. Okay. Really are a married, I am married [inaudible] but you're a low scoring married. Okay. Which means I hear a little bit of Martha too, right? Yeah, yeah. Or it's balanced cause like a minus 10 is the, so you're saying I balanced is what you're really saying. Well, hold on. I want to show you, see if you're a minus three, two a plus three Oh really? A Mary Martha mix. Okay. Very healthy. So you're real close to that. Okay. Yeah. So you have some tendencies. Okay, you're close, but you, you are. Okay. Now if you scored a plus forward to a plus 10 I think you really are a Martha. Oh no.

                        Yeah. And that's not what you scored. So like I literally would score minus 10 on this. Okay. Oh and my mother was four plus 10 wow. Okay. Like we are the very opposites. Every everybody saying is a true story here on my little, which is incredible because when we look at our children and how we educate our kids, and I love that you said with your daughter you realized and for fifth grade that she was a Martha. It's very helpful to understand our children's personalities, especially if they differ from our own. And, and that helps us to educate them better at home because if we don't understand them and how they think and how they respond to life, if you have a, if you're a Mary and you have a Martha for each child and you're trying to homeschool them and a Merry world, it will frustrate them.

                        But, and also the flippy disciple. And if you, if you're a Martha and you're trying to educate your Mary child, you're making a cry, you're going to make them cry and you're going to fight with them and battle with them. And it's going to be a constant, the battle between the two of you. So what's the answer? How and a new way to celebrate this in what I would say is, first of all, I encourage, if you're a Martha, embrace that and always be a Martha. God has given you gifts and talents. Go change the world and use them. And if you're a Mary, do the same. Embrace your Mary cause God gave you, and maybe you're an impasse, maybe you're feelings driven. And maybe that means life isn't always pristine and it can get messy. Sometimes it does and a lot of drama can follow Mary. Sure. However, if that's how you're designed, embrace

Linda:               It and think about who Jesus said would be remembered in eternity at the same time that gospel would be preached. He was referring to Mary's extravagant act of worship. The woman who is again appears to be a broken woman who truly loves him out of the deep need. And so it's like if that's you, then just wear it and love it and let Jesus just be worshiped. Mean. She wiped his feet with her tears and yes, I could cry about right now thinking about that because that moves me so much like I'm trying to imagine if I could see Jesus and how I would so want to fall before he sure did he ever saved me. I mean, I am a broken woman. I am. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life and I've been redeemed. The gospel is good news. It is good news that Jesus saves.

                        And so, like Mary just hold onto that and take a ride with that. And you're not going to get this homeschooling all done well, right? You're just not farmed out what you can. As a matter of fact, I have 10 tips for all marries who are listening and we can do that as a bonus time. Okay. But just in closing, for those who you know, need to cut it whichever you are, embrace it. Because Jesus loved Mary and Martha and Lazarus and what great plans he had even in their crisis. Yes. And isn't that assuring that there's always plans, there's God's plans, you be a Lazarus dies and they're still a good plan that Jesus has out of that. So anyway, I just wanted to say that, but homeschooling, I think it's a Martha world. It's heavy and Nat [inaudible] sufficient. And so I had felt over the years, you know, like some that I just didn't measure up.

                        I mean, I didn't go to bed feeling very successful all the time. And as a homeschool mom and I had to adjust to my kids to get back to them. My kids were all far more structured than me. Yeah. I was the most free spirit of the family, so I had to step up. I needed to adapt and sometimes I just had to step up and that's what I will share as a couple of quick tips I have for Mary for the married life, and I love that about you because now your children are all grown, they're all married, you've got grandkids, and so I love that. I can look at women like you who have been there especially who have been Ameri and you felt like you were messing it up because we talk about that a lot. We talked about that in the movie.

                        We talk about that on the podcast. I just had dinner with a couple of friends the other night and we all were talking about how we just feel like we're just messing it all up. I said, you know, it's so funny because oftentimes people will come to me and asked me questions about homeschooling and I can give them every reason why they should homeschool, but don't ask me how to homeschool because I feel I'm, I'm a Mary and I definitely always feel inadequate. I always feel like I'm messing it up and, and God continues to show me over and over again that he's doing it. Now he's using me and I still, like you said, I still have to be diligent. I can't just throw up my hands and say, Oh well God's going to do everything to be done. But at the same time, God's to fill in the gaps

Yvette:             And there are always going to be gaps. But it's so encouraging to me to talk to a mom like you who's been there and now we can see the results of what your children have, have turned out to, you know, they are productive adults who love Jesus and that's what it's all about. Yeah. I still think we could call ourselves a successful homeschool family. And I have one last word. Some people may be listening going, and she's the one that wrote The Mystery of History. And in case that shakes your confidence in me because like you're writing behind the scenes that I'm not an altogether woman. Well, that's because God, to God be the glory. Amen. I ever authored the minister of history, but you know what ins, what drove those words? It was my feelings. SOC like I didn't pick a Martha to write and he picked a Mary.

                        That's wrong. Because I think that history handled through some emotion and feeling we better see his hand in it. So anyway, that's where the passion comes from. And so, but it was hard and you can see that and how hard it was for me to do this. God, were you sure? Yes. He was like, I got this. You know, because for what? It's about him, right? I didn't invent these stories. They're nice stories and say any way he was able to use something that the world might call weak, right? Oh, to shine on him. But he has used you in an amazing way. And we were just talking about this at dinner tonight. And I was saying the thing I love most about the ministry of history is that it's easy for me as a homeschool mom to be able to use that curriculum because really I feel like I'm just kind of talking through it and having a conversation with my kids about it instead of it being so rigid textbook because I'm a Mary, I am not a rigid textbook kind of girl.

                        Drives me nuts. And for some, you know, for the Martha's out there, they love that. And that works for them though the ministry of history is shine it. Yes, there's plenty of structure in it and there are, I mean, you can take it in several different directions as far as how deep you want to go with it. But for me it's great because I can see your emotion in it. I can see you didn't just take the facts and write them on a page. You, you brought meaning and feeling into it. Yes. And I love that about it. So, and it's all from a Biblical perspective, which that's what it's all about for us. So really quickly let me ask you, you've got the quiz is this, we do of course show notes that people can refer to on the podcast. Do you have that quiz handy that I can, we can send to people?

                        Well, the best way probably did get that. It would be if your listeners wanted to get hold of the workshop, I had this workshop recorded in full and then they can get a little bit more and the quizzes are part of that and they can stop and start and take that. So yes, we can make sure that you're listing okay. To special coupon code. We'll put that in the notes. Okay. Okay. So we'll put a coupon code in the notes and give them access to that and then you can give them the final results of whether they're married or Martha or a Mary Martha. Yes. That scale will be a part of that is great. We are going to stop with the podcast, but for our backstage pass members, we're going to continue on. And you're going to talk about 10 tips. 10 quick tips for those of us who are married Mary homeschool mom doesn't need to hear this because she already knows what she's doing. She's a pretty natural at this. This is the struggle in Mary and there just a few little things I did. I mean these aren't like, this isn't rocket science. You just a few little [inaudible].

                        Okay, so we'll continue on with that for backstage pass members. If you're not a backstage pass member yet, definitely go on the schoolhouse rock website, go to backstage pass member and then you can learn more about what that is, and you have access to all kinds of amazing videos and content and stuff.

Linda:               And please subscribe to my website too - TheMysteryofHistory.com.

Yvette:             And send Linda really kind emails and tell her how wonderful she has because I know that “Marys” need to hear those things. “Marys” have feelings and sometimes I think people I know we're way over time, but that's okay. I know sometimes people, they'll see your name on a book. You know, this lady Linda Lacour Hobar wrote The Mystery of History and, and you become a, almost a character to them instead of a real person.

                        And it's been so neat to just get to know you over the last couple of days and though we've met before, but being in someone's home is completely different. And so, you know, we've, we've lived with you for the last couple of days. I've gotten to know your girls and that's a life changer for me because it's all about those. They are, when I get to meet the kids, that's the best class I write for them. Yep. Your girls are precious. Well and they love you and they were excited to hear your voice and attach me to the life. Yes, yes. Cause we listened to your audio. But thank you for what you are doing for the homeschool community and for all that God is doing through you. It's all for his glory. So thank you backstage. Mass members continue on with the video. It will be available in backstage past and we'll talk about 10 tips for us marries. And in the meantime, you guys have a great week. Thank you for listening today and we will see you back here next week. Bye.